Weird question about Net Yaroze Dev and Emulators

[DaniTaromati]

So i just found out this site existed and im already in LOVE with that im seeing, and while i aint exactly a professional programmer by any sense of the word, i wanted to at least see if i could try my hand at making a little something. however, i was wondering if there was any way to hook up a "virtual to virtual" setup for net yaroze development, IE a virtualbox or VMWare emu running the recommended OS at the time, and if it would be possible to hook up to any emulator (im using duckstation, but any others y'all could recommend would be nice as well ! ), if not ill be happy to just enjoy the discussions about the console since it is still very intriguing nonetheless!

[gwald]

Hi welcome,

There's a Psyq (pro dev SDK) focused VM: https://www.psxdev.net/help/virtual_machine.html
There is also a Net Yaroze focused VM: https://archive.org/details/net-yaroze- ... xp-vm-2022

no$psx works well in winXP and in VM's.

[DaniTaromati]

I'll try to get those up and running to make things work, although the virtual pc link doesn't work anymore on the psyq page. Although i do have a tiny extra question, could i try to make that vm on linux as well? or just windows only? just wondering...

[gwald]

You dont need virtual pc, the VM images will work in linux on either VMWare or Virtual Box.

[DaniTaromati]

Thanks yall, although if i just want to try and get started, what should i choose? the PsyQ dev kit, or the Yaroze kit that was originally provided by Sony/Playstation?

[gwald]

It depends on what you want to do.
If you want to spend about a year or two learning the full pro SDK and rolling your own 2D/3D framework and then a game engine on top of that, and then finally a game, then go pro.

If want to use Sony's high level libraries, and save yourself from learning the lower level AIP's, then Net Yaroze is focused on just that.... and it's more beginner friendly with all the docs and tuts for it.

Net Yaroze is a sub set of psyq, so it's very easy to port Net Yaroze to psqy.
Psyq is the complete Pro SDK, which has both high level and low level libraries... so you can make a Net Yaroze game using psyq.

Net Yaroze is ONLY the high level functions of 2D/3D graphics (probably 80% of psyq libGS) and audio (.seq and VAb's only) ... with some other exclusions, like multitap and FMV/XA playback.

If you made a game before, you can make something relatively quickly with libGS, 2D is very easy but 3D not so much.


Net Yaroze can read the CDROM files and play CD-DA.... so people that say Net Yaroze games are limited to 2MB are ignorant and lazy people that have never opened the Net Yaroze PSX header (libps.h)

The tools are more or less the same, PSX emulators, A PS1 with a cheat cart, unirom and a FTDI serial cable for hardware testing/debugging.

[DaniTaromati]

Fair, im not much of a gamedev, but something just about yaroze is pulling me in, and while psyQ sounds pretty damn powerful, i would get lost super quickly there

[DaniTaromati]

Alright, got the vm setup, just need to look for some references and figure out how to put through my PS3 controller to the vm in a way it can work as a ps1 controller

[Winterlake]

It depends on what you want to do.
If you want to spend about a year or two learning the full pro SDK and rolling your own 2D/3D framework and then a game engine on top of that, and then finally a game, then go pro.

If want to use Sony's high level libraries, and save yourself from learning the lower level AIP's, then Net Yaroze is focused on just that.... and it's more beginner friendly with all the docs and tuts for it.

Net Yaroze is a sub set of psyq, so it's very easy to port Net Yaroze to psqy.
Psyq is the complete Pro SDK, which has both high level and low level libraries... so you can make a Net Yaroze game using psyq.

Net Yaroze is ONLY the high level functions of 2D/3D graphics (probably 80% of psyq libGS) and audio (.seq and VAb's only) ... with some other exclusions, like multitap and FMV/XA playback.

If you made a game before, you can make something relatively quickly with libGS, 2D is very easy but 3D not so much.


Net Yaroze can read the CDROM files and play CD-DA.... so people that say Net Yaroze games are limited to 2MB are ignorant and lazy people that have never opened the Net Yaroze PSX header (libps.h)

The tools are more or less the same, PSX emulators, A PS1 with a cheat cart, unirom and a FTDI serial cable for hardware testing/debugging.

Hi, I found this quite interesting, particularly about the 2mb limit. Can you elaborate a bit more on how you go past the 2mb limit please?

[gwald]

It depends on what you want to do.
If you want to spend about a year or two learning the full pro SDK and rolling your own 2D/3D framework and then a game engine on top of that, and then finally a game, then go pro.

If want to use Sony's high level libraries, and save yourself from learning the lower level AIP's, then Net Yaroze is focused on just that.... and it's more beginner friendly with all the docs and tuts for it.

Net Yaroze is a sub set of psyq, so it's very easy to port Net Yaroze to psqy.
Psyq is the complete Pro SDK, which has both high level and low level libraries... so you can make a Net Yaroze game using psyq.

Net Yaroze is ONLY the high level functions of 2D/3D graphics (probably 80% of psyq libGS) and audio (.seq and VAb's only) ... with some other exclusions, like multitap and FMV/XA playback.

If you made a game before, you can make something relatively quickly with libGS, 2D is very easy but 3D not so much.


Net Yaroze can read the CDROM files and play CD-DA.... so people that say Net Yaroze games are limited to 2MB are ignorant and lazy people that have never opened the Net Yaroze PSX header (libps.h)

The tools are more or less the same, PSX emulators, A PS1 with a cheat cart, unirom and a FTDI serial cable for hardware testing/debugging.

Hi, I found this quite interesting, particularly about the 2mb limit. Can you elaborate a bit more on how you go past the 2mb limit please?

Net Yaroze can fully use a whole CDROM, that's 650-700MB of data and/or music.

Net Yaroze can read the CDROM files - it can load CDROM files from the disc medium, into RAM via CdReadFile function.
https://github.com/search?q=repo%3Agwal ... &type=code
Also NY can launch executables via CdReadExec

Sure, a 'normal' Net Yaroze can't read CDR's but it can read the files on the NY boot disc, not that there is much to read, but NY can actually read files from any Sony pressed PSX CDROM!

I know freepsxboot works on (PAL) Net Yaroze, so I guess you can change the boot disc out and it should reread the CDROM TOC... I'm not 100% sure, I haven't tested this.
Better still, it wouldn't be hard to create your own boot disc, with your own assets, burning it and booting it like a normal NY boot disc and reading your data files etc.
Or use a Unirom cheat cartridge, or use modded retail unit, or emulation, etc, etc

And it can play CD-DA, CD Digital Audio tracks - play CD-DA tracks is relatively processing free music, it doesn't use CPU or RAM, compared to midi music (SEQ/VAB), and it's usually higher quality also. No mod or hack required, just load your game and change the CD to an audio CD and it will work.

NY plays CD-DA via CdPlay function.
https://github.com/gwald/netyaroze_demo ... main.c#L76

More info on audio:
https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https:// ... sound.html

Net Yaroze also has a PC file server over serial, using metrowork's code warrior, and there is a homebrew standalone equivalent, I forget what it was called, I used it 24 years ago!

But Net Yaroze wasn't just limited to the CDROM & serial PC file serving, this book has a small chapter on Net Yaroze:

Which talked about a Net Yaroze networked game running on a local network, via the PC forwarding through the serial cable.

So yeah, 2mb limit is and always was complete BS, and was often used as an excuse by people that couldn't even make a simple 2D game! Those people complained, and without any merit... should NEVER be listened to and taken seriously.
And if you cant make a simple 2D game in less than 2mb of RAM, you're not going to make anything that takes a whole disc!

And well 20 years of low IQ youtubers, pumping out rehashed information, there is a misconception that Net Yaroze was crippled and a lame duck, when it really wasn't.

If the pro dev kit, costing $25k at the time (and requiring a publishing deal) was seen as the best 4WD on the market, lets say the top of the range Geep wrangler, than I would equate Net Yaroze (at $750, that's 3% of the pro kit cost and no publishing deal required) to be like a second hand, 15 year old Suzuki Jimny (AKA Sierra), sure it's cheaper and smaller, but that's a very narrow minded way of comparing them.

I had a Suzuki Sierra in my late 20's and it was the most fun car I've ever had! and built like a little truck!
Being small isn't limiting, it's freeing!


Net Yaroze wasn't about creating impressive 3D scene's but impressive gameplay, which doesn't necessarily require any low level API access.
To prove this, here is a list (not sure how exhaustive it is, it's not my list) of PSX games that used the high level libGS:
https://problemkaputt.de/psxspx-cdrom-f ... d-sony.htm